Curse

Dayfire · Aug 08, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Hi,

I've been playing GW for more then a year now, but lately i seem to be experiencing more and more 'lag' while in any fight. My pc specs:

CPU: Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.4GHz
Memory: 768MB RAM
Graphics card: ATI RADEON A9600XT/TVD 128MB
I have a wireless network connection of 54 Mbps
My monitor is ancient, but that can't be the problem of lags of freezing screens of up to 3-5 secs.

I have no other programs running on the background, and I set my priority to GW while playing. The only program I have running is Norton AntiVirus 2006, but even when disabled the lag still is. In the game I put the graphics and the sound to the lowest quality, same story.

Does anyone know what the problem is?

gabrial heart · Aug 08, 2006, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Sounds like a wireless issue or a need for a defrag on the HD. Wireless can and does get interference and that changes from day to day. One day it might be great, the next you may lag...

RTSFirebat · Aug 08, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

Sounds like a wireless issue or a need for a defrag on the HD. Wireless can and does get interference and that changes from day to day. One day it might be great, the next you may lag...

Not really that clear what your saying, but your on the right track.

Here is some advise on things to try:

- Upgrade your Graphics card drivers AND sound drivers, as both can effect performance.

- Upgrade the fireware of your wireless card and if you have one wireless router as well, as older software can be buggy and cause all kinds of issues.

- As suggested try defragmenting your harddisk.

- I see you have a odd figure of RAM, its not recommended to have RAM in that amount. I suggest investing a single 1GB RAM stick or 2x 512MB RAM sticks. RAM works best in single or same amount pairs. Max and matching downgrades performance.

- Do not, I repeat don't change the priority. This causes more problems then it fixes... doing this will not help. So don't do it!

- You can also try reinstalling Guild Wars as well.

- Finally you can try setting you page file manually, here is what you need to do:

Right click My Computer > Properties > Advanced > Performance > Settings > Advanced > Virtual Memory

You need to make sure the min page file size is set to the same as your current RAM amount, so in your case 512MB, and then set the max to twice your RAM, so 1024MB.

Setting it to "System Managed Size" is not recommended. Windows uses a lot of CPU time and resources to manage the page file size itself, and therefore the cause of your lag could be the fact your Physical memory runs out of space at that time, and then Windows kicks in.

However I would still highly recommend you get another 512 stick of RAM and upgrade your memory to 1GB, as its recommended amount for most games these days.

sleepy samurai · Aug 09, 2006, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Did you try adding
"C:\Program Files\Guild Wars\gw.exe" -perf
to you guildwars short cut?

It will help tell you if it is frame or network.

Matty Of WBB · Aug 09, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

- I see you have a odd figure of RAM, its not recommended to have RAM in that amount. I suggest investing a single 1GB RAM stick or 2x 512MB RAM sticks. RAM works best in single or same amount pairs. Max and matching downgrades performance.

How do u work that out m8 ODD? i have same ram that is 3*256 to me that is not odd ram and if u look at the game specs it only needs the 512 recommended the only lag issue i am having is on the ring of fire island's i cannot complete any of the missions it like 1 frame every 5sec's it is really doing my nut in yet i have factions completed game an all with not one lag problem i am at this min trying to cap the healing hands skill an it is a nightmare "JUDDER" "JUDDER" "JUDDER" btw they working on Dual DRR so i know mem is not a issue

ohh an who told u it's not recommended to have 3*256 stick's?

gabrial heart · Aug 09, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matty Of WBB

How do u work that out m8 ODD? i have same ram that is 3*256 to me that is not odd ram and if u look at the game specs it only needs the 512 recommended the only lag issue i am having is on the ring of fire island's i cannot complete any of the missions it like 1 frame every 5sec's it is really doing my nut in yet i have factions completed game an all with not one lag problem i am at this min trying to cap the healing hands skill an it is a nightmare "JUDDER" "JUDDER" "JUDDER" btw they working on Dual DRR so i know mem is not a issue

ohh an who told u it's not recommended to have 3*256 stick's?

Where direct memory access is concerned, you'll see a slight degradation in performance with a dual channel system (which i'm not even sure you have). Odd meaning you have 3 chips or Odd meaning you have 2 unlike sized chips to achieve your memory configuration, memory in theory is best in pairs (2) of same size, speed and manufactures. On systems that don't utilize dual channel architecture, the benifits are minimal if seen at all.

Anyway, you're only lagging in the one mission? I do know that the ether towers/seals are pretty graphic intensive, is that the area you're experiencing issues?

Tarun · Aug 09, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Why do people try to sound educated with computers... They do more harm than good. I can see by pretty much all of your statements that you don't seem to know anything about computers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Not really that clear what your saying, but your on the right track.

Here is some advise on things to try:

- Upgrade your Graphics card drivers AND sound drivers, as both can effect performance.

That can only really have a negative effect if there is an issue with a driver. Upgrading both won't solve lag issues. Especially when graphical lag would be related to graphic drivers. Newer isn't always better either. Some of the ATI and NVIDIA drivers have had issues and if what a user has works, they don't always need to update. Haven't you heard that saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

- Upgrade the fireware of your wireless card and if you have one wireless router as well, as older software can be buggy and cause all kinds of issues.

Okay, you're saying to upgrade the firmware of the wireless card. You know, that might actually help if they actually HAD firmware.

Even if he was to upgrade the firmware of his wireless router, that wouldn't really do any good because a very high probability of his lag could be due to packet loss over the wireless LAN. Any real life obstacle can interfere with the wireless signal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

- As suggested try defragmenting your harddisk.

Defragmentation isn't even really needed on a NTFS file system. The original poster is using Windows XP which does a type of defragment every three days when it works with the prefetch and layout.ini files. Yes, that's right. Built in self optimization.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

- I see you have a odd figure of RAM, its not recommended to have RAM in that amount. I suggest investing a single 1GB RAM stick or 2x 512MB RAM sticks. RAM works best in single or same amount pairs. Max and matching downgrades performance.

However I would still highly recommend you get another 512 stick of RAM and upgrade your memory to 1GB, as its recommended amount for most games these days.

Mix and matching latency timings downgrades performance (on the order of nanoseconds), and not using dual channel when you are capable is another downgrade (on the order of milliseconds)

768 is simply 512 + 256

Mix and matching RAM clock speeds (like say one is 333 and one is 400) only downgrades the 400 stick to 333 level.

At least you did give ONE good piece of advice here. Upgrading his RAM to 1GB would be beneficial, though it wouldn't change much from running 768MB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

- Do not, I repeat don't change the priority. This causes more problems then it fixes... doing this will not help. So don't do it!

It wouldn't matter, if it goes to Realtime the game or computer will crash. Anything else and it will reset the priority automatically. I've known people who had issues with decompression in Guild Wars (terrible algorithm altogether) and set their gw.exe priority up to high to speed up the decompression and help it along. It would always reset to the default when finished. It won't hurt anything; but it's not recommended to mess with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

- You can also try reinstalling Guild Wars as well.

If he's experiencing graphical lag, reinstalling won't change that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

- Finally you can try setting you page file manually, here is what you need to do:

Right click My Computer > Properties > Advanced > Performance > Settings > Advanced > Virtual Memory

You need to make sure the min page file size is set to the same as your current RAM amount, so in your case 512MB, and then set the max to twice your RAM, so 1024MB.

Setting it to "System Managed Size" is not recommended. Windows uses a lot of CPU time and resources to manage the page file size itself, and therefore the cause of your lag could be the fact your Physical memory runs out of space at that time, and then Windows kicks in.

No. No no no, just plain wrong and no. System Managed Size is a GOOD thing.

Some people like the "2x rule" where you set the minimum to 2x your max RAM, and the maximum for your pagefile to 2x the minimum.

You do not need to mess with the settings at all. Let Windows handle it, because it will know when it needs more memory. (What, you think you will?) Also, with today's hard drive sizes nearing a terabyte of storage, you don't need to worry about the pagefile taking up space.

You can educate yourself by reading the SH/SC Wiki page on Windows Memory Management.

Suggestions to cure the lag:
- NAV is a well known resource hog. You may want to switch to something like Avast (An excellent free antivirus).

- The wireless LAN. Any real life obstacle can interfere with the wireless signal. You may want to get a CAT-5 ethernet cable and plug it into your wireless router. This will reduce a lot of latency on your home network. the cards just retransmit when there's loss of signal and if TCP packets detect that their checksum doesn't match their contents, they also ask for retransmits. So there's retransmissions on both hardware and software levels. However, if there is an issue and they have to continuously retransmit the data, your entire network can lag.

- A possible graphics driver issue could also cause the lag. You may want to upgrade your graphic drivers and DirectX. ATI Graphic Drivers and DirectX 9.0c Redistributable (August 2006).

- Worst case scenario is the hard drive is failing (clicking/etc) and is causing it to freeze up.

- DMA may not be enabled. You may wish to read this article.

If "DMA if available" is set but current mode is PIO, Right-click and Remove the Primary IDE Controller. Direct memory access allows devices to communicate without involving the CPU. With PIO mode, (programmable I/O), the CPU does all of the work buffering and reading/writing to the hard drive

So if you deleted a folder full of files, your CPU usage would be 100%. But in DMA mode, it would be 0%.

In Guild Wars, your computer would want to commit suicide with DMA off. But like I said, you will have to Uninstall the Primary IDE controller if it's set to DMA but still says PIO. After rebooting from that, it will redetect your drive, and then ask you to reboot again. After the second reboot, DMA should be on and all will be well. :P

gabrial heart · Aug 09, 2006, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Seems pretty accurate tarun, the only issue i have is with VM. There ia a time when it's benificial to run a x2 initial page file size with a max of x6. One such time is when windows need to reallocate it's calculated size, which seems to happen often with systems under 1GB running GW and running other apps as well. During the time which windows recalcs the page file, the system comes to a crawl and when in full screen mode in GW, it goes on unnoticed except for horribly slow game play or load times. It's not unsual for the tech team to offer this advice instead of windows managed size options, just to avoid this issue on machines under 1GB.

Tarun · Aug 09, 2006, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

the only issue i have is with VM. There ia a time when it's benificial to run a x2 initial page file size with a max of x6. One such time is when windows need to reallocate it's calculated size, which seems to happen often with systems under 1GB running GW and running other apps as well. During the time which windows recalcs the page file, the system comes to a crawl and when in full screen mode in GW, it goes on unnoticed except for horribly slow game play or load times. It's not unsual for the tech team to offer this advice instead of windows managed size options, just to avoid this issue on machines under 1GB.

What the hell are you talking about? Honestly, did you read that link about Windows Memory Management? Doesn't seem so.

Most of the time, people have it set to custom without realizing it. If you set it to system managed size, it won't cause a performance problem. If it's on custom and exceeds the custom max, then it will pop up that balloon and say it had to increase it (because it just ran out of available VM). But with system managed, it will always stay ahead of the VM.

gabrial heart · Aug 09, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

What the hell are you talking about? Honestly, did you read that link about Windows Memory Management? Doesn't seem so.

Most of the time, people have it set to custom without realizing it. If you set it to system managed size, it won't cause a performance problem. If it's on custom and exceeds the custom max, then it will pop up that balloon and say it had to increase it (because it just ran out of available VM). But with system managed, it will always stay ahead of the VM.

Doesn't seem to be the case on any of the machines I've used. The windows managed size is intially 1.5 times the size to 3 times the size of physical RAM, when this runs out, it will specifically inform you that the page file is being recalced impacting system performance (no VM error, which it's why it's called system managed size). If it says that specifically in the article (which i didnt see mentioned there while scimming), then it's inaccurate.

Recommended size given by GW tech support is to change the managed size to 2x to 6x the normal page file size to avoid any VM errors or system stalls, due to the smaller page file specs the system sets automatically. If set too low, will cause the system to stall and eventualy end the application with a VM error. This is just with-in my experience and that of which i've read.

Tarun · Aug 09, 2006, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

Recommended size given by GW tech support is to change the managed size to 2x to 6x the normal page file size to avoid any VM errors or system stalls, due to the smaller page file specs the system sets automatically. If set too low, will cause the system to stall and eventualy end the application with a VM error. This is just with-in my experience and that of which i've read.

Which only further proves they're not the brightest.

gabrial heart · Aug 09, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

Which only further proves they're not the brightest.

Yeah, that may be true, but after reading over that wiki you posted and some of the other information they had on there seems quite misleading in comparison to some of the things I've read and experienced first hand.

Like the article about parts to built a pc and how AMD's are overall better performers seems to go against 90 percent of the articles I've read about the stand-off between the 2 chips, as well as a co-worker of mine who does the benchtesting and extreme overclocking himself. They even post a reference on that wiki site which has benchmark tests that completely contradict the information provided about the AMD's perfomance O_0.

Concidering that the programmers of the game offer those suggestions to help improve performance and i have experienced better gameplay going off those suggestion, means to me they might have done a little better leg-work before offering them.

Tarun · Aug 09, 2006, 11:06 PM // 23:06

They are techs for game support, not everyday pc issues and troubleshooting.

Also, just read about Windows Memory Management. I know that the article is accurate as even the techs I consult with say it's dead-on.

Matty Of WBB · Aug 10, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

(which i'm not even sure you have)

Dude WTF is that statment i know i have it wha u cannot take my word for it? an btw Tarun u are right m8 his info he gives there is like he wants to flame u not help ^^see statment above

gabrial heart · Aug 10, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matty Of WBB

Dude WTF is that statment i know i have it wha u cannot take my word for it? an btw Tarun u are right m8 his info he gives there is like he wants to flame u not help ^^see statment above

A dual channel DDR machine? I didn't see you mention thats what you had on board. We were talking about memory configurations, not trying to flame people.

TalonTheCat · Aug 10, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Everyone systems and programs are different, so as always your mileage may vary - my experience:

Window managed pagefile, Server and Professional editions: Crashes servers and PC's all the time (grows the pagefile to use all available space on disk) - I am sure it works on occasion - haven't seen it yet - not sure if I will ever give it another chance in the near future! (over 500 laptops/PC's and 50 servers)

Memory in pairs: never heard it to be a big problem with PC's - now Unix boxes I've dealt with? Yeah, pairs are a must.

New Drivers: Some are OK - most are buggy, so unless it will fix a specific problem I am having, I leave the updates for months after release.

Wireless network: Yep, often a culprit.

NAV: Yep a hog - still like it for some reason - I must a maschist.

Auto-Defrag: Never saw a system do that - I will have to investigate more- thanks!

Ancient Monitor: You'd be suprised at how it could affect the visual "chopiness" of the game.